Regional Seniors Travel Card

The Hon. SAM FARRAWAY (16:29:33):

I move:

(1)That this House notes that:

(a)the regional seniors travel card was rolled out by the former Coalition Government in 2020 to acknowledge that seniors in regional New South Wales have greater distances to travel and do not have the same level of access to public transport;

(b)the regional seniors travel card was expanded in 2022 by the former Coalition Government to include eligible seniors who are carers and those with disabilities;

(c)since 2020, more than one million cards have been issued, helping seniors maintain their independence by easing the cost of travel; and

(d)the regional seniors travel card has injected more than $196 million into the New South Wales economy.

(2)That this House calls on the Minns Labor Government to do the right thing and continue funding the $250 regional seniors travel card in the September Budget.

The regional seniors travel card was introduced by the former Liberal-Nationals Government in 2020 to acknowledge that seniors in regional New South Wales have greater distances to travel and do not have the same level of access to public transport. The numbers really do speak for themselves. In the first three years of this program we saw in excess of a million cards issued to seniors in regional New South Wales. Up until March of this year, before the change of government, we saw in excess of 300,000 cards issued just in the first quarter. That is in excess of 1.3 million cards issued to seniors across regional New South Wales. During the course of this program the former Government also expanded it through to some veterans, carers and those on the disability support pension. We had direct feedback throughout about the success of that program and its importance.

Today I bring this motion to the House because the New South Wales Minns Labor Government has refused to commit funding for the regional seniors travel card in the upcoming budget. Instead it finds a way to accuse regional seniors of doing the wrong thing, despite over 90 per cent of spending on the regional seniors card being used to purchase fuel. I remember those statistics from when I was the Minister. Over 90 per cent of that card was modelled by Transport for NSW to be spent on fuel. The Liberals and Nationals have had to stand up for regional seniors and start a petition to lobby the Treasurer to make sure that he finds the cash for the September budget.

Seniors in regional New South Wales are not happy with the Premier or this Government. This program should be beyond politics. It is a program that works. It has injected over $196 million back into the New South Wales economy through things such as pre-booked NSW TrainLink services. It supports taxi operators across this State. It supports community transport operators, particularly in regional areas where they have greater distances to travel. There is a holistic reinvestment of these funds back into this economy, supporting our seniors across the bush in the middle of what the Government states—and I agree—is a cost‑of‑living crisis.

I am perplexed as to why the Government would cut a successful program that is accepted by the community. Again, the numbers speak for themselves. I acknowledge that clearly there are some regional MPs who do sit in the Labor Party caucus. But at the end of the day, that caucus is dominated by Sydney‑based members of Parliament. I believe the Labor Government is putting Sydney before regional seniors. It should not be up to Opposition members to have to do these petitions. This is a program that works. It reinvests in our State. Nevertheless the petition is out there. I encourage all members in this Chamber to visit savethetravelcard.com.au. We will run this petition up until the budget and I will do my best to convince the Treasurer that he needs to find that money in the budget.

I recall many letters I received in my time as Minister—and the previous regional transport Ministers would say the same—from Labor MPs who wanted their local government areas, which were actually defined as being in Greater Sydney, to be a part of the regional seniors travel card. I think it is a bit disingenuous for Government MPs to be out there trying to slash and burn or the finance Minister getting a laser cutter out to these travel cards when in fact some of the Government's very own MPs supported this policy when in opposition. Even the now Minister for Regional Transport and Roads loved it. She promoted it on her Facebook page in Maitland on 24 January. In the lead-up to the election she was promoting successful policies and programs by the Liberal‑Nationals Government yet she is obviously part of the razor gang and the laser cutters who now want to cut it. Again I say that the New South Wales Labor Government is putting Sydney in front of regional seniors.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM (Special Minister of State, Minister for Roads, Minister for the Arts, Minister for Music and the Night-time Economy, and Minister for Jobs and Tourism) (16:34:55):

Firstly, I indicate on behalf of the Government that amendments to this motion will be moved. One will be moved by the Government and I understand another will be moved; my colleagues will refer to those. Of course the Government recognises that there is some value in this card. But the real question for the shadow Minister is: If he is such an advocate now, why did his Government not fund it? That is the issue.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

I remind the Hon. Wes Fang that he is on two calls to order.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:The Daily Telegraph

We have seen this issue of the fiscal cliff that was left with not just this program but a number of other programs. Having lost the argument when he was in government, he now wants to re-prosecute it. That is fine, but the startling facts that have come to light about the administration of this program are deeply concerning. The new Minister has exposed how they operate on one of these other cards, and we have the same problems with the administration of this card. took this card out and found:

The card … worked to buy a 20 packet of Holiday Crush cigarettes for $32 at one service station.

The Hon. Sam Farraway:

That's not the seniors card. You're misleading Parliament.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

It went on:

At another, the card worked to buy a $33 pack of Bond Street classics, a strawberry doughnut and a can of Mother energy drink.

The Hon. Sam Farraway:

Point of order: I ask the—

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

I referred to both cards. You misheard me.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

What is the member's point of order?

The Hon. Sam Farraway:The Daily Telegraph

I ask that the Minister for Roads not mislead the House. When referring to , refer to it correctly.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

Order! That is a debating point, not a point of order.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

For the benefit of the member, I made the point to note that was about the other card. This card suffers the same deficiencies. Here they are with an energy drink, a strawberry doughnut, cigarettes—these things could kill you!

The Hon. Sam Farraway:

Point of order: It is unparliamentary, is it not, to be using props? He is waving around a newspaper article.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

I will put the prop down.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

I saw no prop. The Minister may proceed.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

I simply make the point that these things could kill you—and I am talking here about the strawberry doughnut! Such was the administration of this program under the former Government that you can wander into any service station with these cards and get yourself a feed full of strawberry doughnuts,. To hear the shadow Minister say he was aware that 10 per cent of more than $400 million was being wasted in this way—

The Hon. Sam Farraway:

Point of order: The Minister is misquoting what I said in my contribution.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

There is no point of order. The member has the right of reply.

The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM:

Some $40 million of strawberry doughnuts were going out the door under his watch. He has some questions to answer about this program. That is what I am hearing as he speaks to this. The Government rests.

The Hon. ROD ROBERTS (16:38:05):

One Nation will be supporting this motion. Again, it is because of this divide between the bush and the city. As you know, Mr Assistant President, I live in Goulburn. Unfortunately I am an elderly person myself. In another couple of years when I retire from this place, I hope to be in receipt of the seniors travel card. In all seriousness, Goulburn has no metros or government buses. We have no trains like they have in Sydney. We have no ferries and we have no Ubers. Elderly people rely on these travel vouchers to help them get about the State. We do not have a big bank of specialists in Goulburn. Every time an elderly person needs to seek medical attention they have to travel to either Bowral or Canberra, which costs money. They cannot jump on the bus or train. They need to drive or make some alternative arrangements.

It is a sad fact of life that a lot of young people leave regional areas and move to the city, so our elderly people have no family networks to turn to for support. When they want to visit their family, they have to leave the country and travel to the city. They cannot afford to do this during a cost-of-living crisis. I hear the Minister's argument, and I do not know whether it is right or not. He said it is not funded going forward. I hear the Hon. Sam Farraway say it was funded. I do not care if it was funded going forward or not. This is a damn good idea and it needs to be funded by the current Government. It is no good saying what the other mob did. Labor is now in charge. It has hold of the steering wheel and it can drive this.

This is extremely important for people who live in the bush. You will not hear me stand up here and support the Creative Kids vouchers: Buy a bloody crayon and get some butchers paper if you want to be creative. You will not hear me say anything about the Active Kids vouchers: Take your kids for a lap around the block, buy a soccer ball and kick it around, or take them flying a kite like we did when we were kids. But this is an important initiative that needs to be retained and supported because there is a definite need for it. One Nation will support the motion.

The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (16:40:31):

I speak in strong support of the motion moved by my colleague the Hon. Sam Farraway. I start by quoting one of the smartest people I know, which is my five-year-old daughter, Matilda. Quite randomly—out of the blue—she said to me one day when we were driving along a bumpy road, "Mum, this is Labor's fault because they only care about Sydney." I am worried she has been listening to me on the phone a little too much over the past few years. However, I will use Matilda's wise words in this debate because, as the Hon. Rod Roberts said, this is a classic example of regional seniors being discriminated against by this Government. Everything that the Hon. Rod Roberts said is dead right.

As someone who lives in Gunnedah, I have the same issues. We do not have trains, Uber, ferries or access to the same levels of public transport that people do in Sydney. I know of regional seniors in my community who have found the card to be a lifesaver, literally, when they have been able to use it to get to medical appointments or when they go to get groceries—those basic things. It is a discount on their transport that, frankly, people who live in the city probably take for granted because it is always available. A senior who lives in the city can always get discounted travel support. Seniors cannot get the same thing in regional New South Wales without this card. Members opposite keep using the example of doughnuts and Mother energy drinks. If they foresee an issue with the administration of the card, there is a simple solution: make sure that there are measures in place to stop people who might be rorting the system unintentionally. Members opposite should not throw the baby out with the bathwater and take the card away from everyone, including those people who have been using it for the right reasons, and discriminate against regional seniors.

The fact that we have had more than one million cards issued since 2020 tells us that people like it, people are using it and it is making a difference for our seniors when it comes to meeting cost-of-living pressures. I encourage everyone to sign the petition. People power is important, particularly when we are dealing with cost‑of-living measures. This is something that The Nationals feel strongly about, and we have been elected to be a voice for regional New South Wales. It is important that the concerns and issues of our community are put on record in this place. The Government has every ability in the upcoming budget to continue the card.

I am not interested in making reflections on what we did when we were in government. We set up the card. We funded the card. Government members can now make a conscious choice in the budget to fund it, to continue it and to show their support for regional seniors. I hope the Minister for Regional New South Wales is making this point to her colleagues as she goes through the Expenditure Review Committee processes. It is her job, as the Minister, to stick up for regional seniors. If that does not happen, then I think it raises serious questions about whether she is doing what she is supposed to be doing. We support the motion. We support the card and the House should back it in.

The Hon. STEPHEN LAWRENCE (16:43:36):

I would like to start my contribution by saying that my nine-year-old son is concerned about the rorting of the card! However, I cannot honestly say that, so I will not.

The Hon. John Graham:

He's pro-doughnut.

The Hon. STEPHEN LAWRENCE:

He is pro-doughnut, that's true. I expected that there might be an amendment from the mover of the motion, because the Leader of The Nationals, the member for Dubbo in the other place, has said in recent days that the cards need to be reassessed. I infer he has said that in relation to the reported rorting of the cards. Notwithstanding what the member for Dubbo has said, we have seen a motion moved that is a full-throttled endorsement of a voucher system which, unfortunately, has been rorted. For this House to resolve, in a full-throttled way, to endorse a rorted system would be most unsatisfactory.

The strategy of the Opposition needs to be called out, and I have witnessed it over recent months since being elected. The strategy was to create a whole lot of voucher systems worth billions of dollars in the lead-up to the election but not to fund any of them in the forward estimates and to then turn up after losing government and argue that every single voucher system should be funded, even though it did not put any of them in the forward estimates. If the Opposition had put a certain percentage in the forward estimates or put other money aside so it could fund some of them, it might be understandable, but that has not occurred. The political strategy has to be called out. I think the comments of the member for Dubbo in the other place have to be acknowledged. He has acknowledged the problems with it. That has not happened here. Accordingly, I move:

That the question be amended by omitting paragraphs (1) and (2) and inserting instead:

That this House notes that:

(a)the regional seniors travel card was rolled out by the former Liberal-Nationals Government in 2020; and

(b)the regional seniors travel card was expanded in 2022 by the former Liberal-Nationals Government however it failed to fully fund the program across the forward estimates.

That, I would suggest, is an accurate motion that this House could support because it makes clear that there have been problems with rorting. It also makes clear how disingenuous it is of members opposite to continually move these motions as though they supported all of these voucher programs in a bona fide way. They did not fund them in the forward estimates.

Ms CATE FAEHRMANN (16:46:44):

I speak to the motion on behalf of The Greens. I move the following amendment:

That the question be amended as follows:

(1)Omit paragraph (1) (d) and insert instead:

(d)the regional seniors travel card, in its current form, allows holders to use their funds on any goods or services sold at an approved merchant including but not limited to cigarettes.

(2)Omit paragraph (2) and insert instead:

(e)That this House calls on the Minns Labor Government to recognise the value of the card and tighten the card's spending criteria to only NSW TrainLink regional trains and coaches, fuel and taxis.

The Greens support means-tested support for senior people living in regional New South Wales to be able to access regional transport. We support Government assistance to support them to buy fuel and, in circumstances, to catch taxis. We know that public transport in the regions is in an absolutely appalling state. Many constituents talk to me about rail stations that have closed, buses that are no longer there and trains that are either not on time or have been cancelled.

The regional seniors travel card is important. The Greens think that it was a potentially good initiative by the Coalition when it was in government. However, the system clearly was not tight enough—we have heard those stories of strawberry doughnuts, cigarettes and everything else. But the fact is that the card has not been budgeted for in the forward estimates and the Opposition is, at this point, using this as a political stunt because it really is a policy‑free zone—as we are seeing every day in this place. The Greens want to try to reach a compromise. We recognise the value of the card and ask the new Labor Government to tighten the criteria and recognise its value as well. Indeed, if it can be budgeted for and continued, that would be a fantastic outcome. I hope members will support the motion to recognise the value of the card in the first place. That would be a big step, considering the current level of debate. I commend my amendment to the House.

The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (16:49:56):

I contribute to debate on the motion, which is about regional people having access to a program that was working really well for them. I noticed in the contributions of those opposite the accusation that we had only introduced some of those programs just before the election, but then they contradicted that and said that some had been around since 2020. How any member who has experience in the regions could speak against this card and what it is doing is quite honestly staggering. I was a cancer nurse living in regional and rural New South Wales and patients would often say that it was so hard to afford to get to treatment. That is why we made the biggest increase to the Isolated Patients Travel and Accommodation Assistance Scheme that this State has ever seen. That is why local community groups raise money to help people with their transport costs. That is exactly what the regional seniors travel card did.

Members opposite have been degrading country people because of that one story about the doughnut and the drink. Is the Government saying that country people abuse the handouts that they get? That is really offensive. And guess what? People are not perfect; human beings are not perfect. People will access benefits and use them for things that perhaps they should not. But the great majority use this card for fuel. Government members are talking about someone who bought a doughnut and a drink by saying, "It's all a rort. Country people are terrible. They can't be trusted. They're just going to abuse the card." That is absolutely atrocious conversation. Country people are using the card for the greater good. I hate to disagree with the Hon. Rod Roberts, who I admire deeply, but initiatives like Creative Kids are really important to people.

The Hon. Courtney Houssos:

All of these things that weren't funded.

The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR:

Those opposite use the argument "Oh, it's not funded. Oh, you haven't funded it," but they need to wake up. They are the Government now. They can decide.

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

Members will keep it down to a dull roar.

The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR:

It is a bit of a cacophony. It is unbelievable. Members opposite have to make choices about what to fund now that they are in government. If they think that the community is listening to them say, "It's unfunded," then I point out that they did not fund the pay rises that they promised at the election. Here we go again with more Labor lies and more degradation of country people and communities. They will not forget.

The Hon. WES FANG (16:53:08):

I give my support to the good motion moved by the Hon. Sam Farraway. It is a good motion because it provides a choice for the Government. Labor was elected to government, and we accept that. The program that we put in place when we were in government is on the chopping block thanks to the Minister for Finance and her razor gang. This program is important to us because many metropolitan seniors have the ability to access subsidised travel that people in rural and regional communities are not able to access. The tyranny of distance is much greater felt by those seniors who live west of the Great Dividing Range. There is no question about that. Seniors who live in metropolitan areas are able to catch buses, subsidised trains and ferries. The transport options available to them at subsidised rates do not exist to the people we represent.

Time expired.

The regional seniors travel card not only provided a little bit of relief to seniors in rural and regional communities but also provided equity. It was an opportunity for those seniors who do not live in metropolitan areas and are not able to catch a subsidised train, ferry or bus to purchase fuel to put in the car so that they could make the trip to visit their loved ones. They could go and see the doctor or visit relatives and friends or whatever it is that they wanted to do in a way that was provided for by the Government as a cost-of-living relief measure. I note the comments made by the Hon. Stephen Lawrence suggesting that we need to reassess the card. If any reassessment of the card is necessary, it should be increased. The Government and the Minister for Finance should commit to increasing the value of the card because cost of living has gone up. The price of fuel and travel has gone up. They should increase it and back regional seniors like we did. []

The Hon. AILEEN MacDONALD (16:56:17):

I support the motion moved by my colleague the Hon. Sam Farraway. The regional seniors travel card is a practical measure that really does make a difference to those who live in regional New South Wales. Whilst there are so many appealing aspects to living in the country, the long distances that one has to travel to access services are a challenge to many. The distances one may have to travel to see a doctor, for example, can pose a real financial burden on the elderly, especially as so many of the affordable public transport options that those in the city use are not available to those living regionally. The regional seniors travel card could be used at certain retailers to pay for pre-booked NSW TrainLink regional trains and coaches, fuel and taxis.

The elderly and seniors often need to see specialists and have medical appointments more frequently as they age. In New South Wales we want to see that regional living does not mean restricted living. The cost of travelling to appointments when you are no longer able to drive and public transport is not a viable option can very quickly add up. The regional seniors travel card is a great help to so many in regional New South Wales. It provides some cost-of-living relief at a time when it is sorely needed. This is a simple, practical measure that ensures we are looking after those who have contributed so much to our great State. I do not want to see those outside of the city left out or forgotten. I certainly would hate to see our seniors missing important appointments because the cost of travel is beyond their means.

With the expansion of the card in 2022 by the former Government to include eligible seniors who are carers and those with disabilities, the cards are inclusive and show government support for those who need it most. It has been disappointing to see the current Labor Government already cutting so many cost-of-living relief programs. I call on the Government to continue funding the regional seniors travel card in the September budget. It is the right thing to do for our regions and for our seniors. As a regional MLC in particular, I feel compelled to be a voice for those in the bush. Should the Coalition have been returned to government, a budget would have been done and dusted and the card would be funded. That argument does not hold water. I support the motion.

The Hon. SUSAN CARTER (16:59:06):

I support the motion simply as a matter of equity. A senior with a gold Opal card can travel as far as Wollongong by train for $2.50. A senior in Katoomba with a gold Opal card can travel to Sydney by train, catch a ferry to the zoo and then catch a bus to Palm Beach all for $2.50. A senior with a gold Opal card in Newcastle can get to Cronulla and back for $2.50. There is good news for our interstate friends. If they live in Albany, the Gold Coast, Alice Springs or Adelaide, they can bring their seniors card with them when they visit New South Wales and they too can get a gold Opal and travel our entire network for $2.50 a day.

But what are the options for someone living in the regions? Concessional rail travel is available, but they first have to get to the train. If they live in Monteagle and want to travel to Sydney by train, they have to catch a taxi to Harden station with a fare between $130 and $160. How accessible is that? The Regional Seniors Travel Card addresses exactly that situation. We all know that the transport network available to those who live in the city is simply not available to those who live in regional and rural areas. What this card does is help grandparents see their grandchildren. It helps patients see their doctors. It helps those on limited and fixed incomes to engage with cultural and sporting activities.

The Daily Telegraph

It goes some small way to redressing the balance between the city and the bush. Just because it allegedly can be used to buy strawberry doughnuts—more the breakfast of young tradies than of travelling 65-year-olds—it does not mean that it has been used in that way or is regularly used in that way. It is very disappointing to see government research and policy development apparently being outsourced to . If the problem is loopholes, the Government should fix the loopholes. Good government would address administration issues rather than punishing regional seniors and reducing their travel options. I wholeheartedly support the motion.

The Hon. NATALIE WARD (17:01:33):

As a true Coalitionist, I can say to the House that I really am a Nat.

The Hon. Sam Farraway:

Literally—Nat's a Nat.

The Hon. NATALIE WARD:Time expired.

Literally. As a very brief Pitt Street farmer, I speak in support of the motion. This is a great initiative. It is endorsed by more than a million people who have taken it up. []

The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Peter Primrose):

I welcome the family of the Hon. Rachel Merton to the gallery—her husband, Justin, and daughters Amelia and Alexandra. They are most welcome.

The Hon. SAM FARRAWAY (17:02:19):

In reply: I acknowledge and thank members from both sides of the Chamber for their contributions. I will not name them all. I have some corrections to make for members opposite. First, what member have put on display today is the great divide between the city and the bush. I say to the Hon. Stephen Lawrence that I agree with the hardworking and fantastic leader of The Nationals and local member for Dubbo that ciggies, and bottles of Fanta and Coke and lollies should not be bought on the card. That was never raised with me when I was a Minister. Some members opposite have forgotten or do not realise that they are now in government. It is the Government's job to fix this problem.

It shows how out of touch this Labor Government is. We are talking about purchases at service stations. The most expensive thing at a service station is the fuel. That money on the card will be spent on fuel. What I have to say about the great divide is that it was only today that the Minister for Transport confirmed in the media that from 1 July there will be no fee increases for the Opal network in Sydney. Clearly that is indicating, "If you live in the city, there are no increases. We will continue the funding. We are all good. Keep hammering away. But if you are a regional senior who relies on a $2.50 travel card, it is on the chopping block"—well and truly.

Time expired.

I say to the Hon. John Graham that from my recollection as a former Minister, 90 per cent of the Regional Seniors Travel Card was spent on fuel. The remaining 10 per cent was not spent on doughnuts. It was spent on our community transport operators and the NSW TrainLink services, and the remainder was spent on our hardworking taxi operators. The Hon. John Graham must understand that this card is well used in the bush and the money is reinvested back into our economy. This was a two-year program, which was extended for another two years. It was operational until it was cut this week by the Government. The completion of the four-year program is funded for 2023. If we had won the election I had every intention of budgeting for an extension of the program. Members opposite have forgotten that they are now in government. Where is our Treasurer? He is the one we need to talk to. We need money in the budget. The Hon. John Graham talked about doughnuts. Let us talk about doughnuts—the only thing regional seniors will get out of this lot is doughnuts! []

The PRESIDENT:

The Hon. Sam Farraway has moved a motion, to which the Hon. Stephen Lawrence has moved an amendment, to which Ms Cate Faehrmann has moved another amendment. I propose to put the Hon. Stephen Lawrence's amendment first. If that is carried, then Ms Cate Faehrmann's amendment lapses.

The Hon. John Graham:

Point of order: I think these two amendments could live happily side by side, but I am happy to be corrected by the Clerk.

The PRESIDENT:

On advice from the Clerk, the question is that the amendment of the Hon. Stephen Lawrence be agreed to.

The House divided.

Ayes20

Noes16

Majority4

Amendment agreed to.

Ms Cate Faehrmann's amendment lapsed.

The PRESIDENT:

The question is that the motion as amended be agreed to. Is leave granted to ring the bells for one minute?

Leave not granted.

The House divided.

Ayes20

Noes14

Majority6

Motion as amended agreed to.

‍